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The Quintessentially - You Podcast
I want to lift the lid on men's mental health. Men are struggling to share their concerns for fear that they will be ridiculed, or that it will be viewed as a sign of weakness.
I have spoken to countless men who actually get to a point and think what am I doing, what is my purpose in life, what happens next?
Hopefully I can bring real stories to you about real people with a view to show that it is alright to not have all the answers, that it is alright to share with someone with whom you trust if you are struggling.
Please like, comments and share the podcast if you believe it would benefit a friend, colleague, member of your family.
I am looking to change lives one person at a time because #everymancounts!!
I have included a number of websites below that may be helpful. I have no affiliation with any of these websites, some are known to me, but the majority have been taken from google.
UK Mental Health Support - Mind
Men's Line Australia
Men's Mental Health NZ
Men's Mental Health North America
The Quintessentially - You Podcast
Sui Matagi - Faith, Belief & Vision
Suaia Matagi has made some life altering decisions in his lifetime, and learned valuable lessons along the way, we pull back the curtains and have a good chat about purpose, decisions, learnings, and belief.
We have only touched on part of his journey but Sui shows that everyone can change where they are headed in life if they have a vision.
From missing his daughter's first birthday to chalking up 200 professional rugby league appearances, in New Zealand, Australia, and the UK. This is the first instalment and it is completely compelling.
โ๐ฟ๐ค๐ฃ'๐ฉ ๐๐ญ๐ฅ๐๐๐ฉ ๐๐ซ๐๐ง๐ฎ๐ค๐ฃ๐ ๐ฉ๐ค ๐ช๐ฃ๐๐๐ง๐จ๐ฉ๐๐ฃ๐ ๐ฎ๐ค๐ช๐ง ๐๐ค๐ช๐ง๐ฃ๐๐ฎ, ๐๐จ๐ฅ๐๐๐๐๐ก๐ก๐ฎ ๐๐ ๐ฉ๐๐๐ฎ ๐๐๐ซ๐ ๐ฃ๐๐ซ๐๐ง ๐ฌ๐๐ก๐ ๐๐ ๐ฎ๐ค๐ช๐ง ๐ฅ๐๐ฉ๐.โ
This is Suaia Matagi up close and personal.
If you would like to reach out to Sui, you can do via LinkedIn Instagram, and Facebook
You are listening to the Quintessentially - You Podcast, where we share journeys and shift minds because #everymancounts.
More about the episode....
Have you ever wondered what it takes to transform your life and chase your dreams, no matter how far you've strayed off the path? Or how one manages to overcome immense personal challenges and still shine in the demanding world of professional sports?
Tune in as we sit down with Sui Matangi, a professional rugby league player, who narrates his life-altering journey from prison to professional rugby.
In our riveting conversation, Sui shares his transformative experience inside, where he found purpose and an unwavering will to succeed.
With his candid stories about the trials and tribulations of being a professional athlete, you'll grasp the sheer dedication, determination, and sacrifices required to reach the pinnacle of the sport.
Sui provides an inside look into his career with the Warriors in New Zealand, , the hurdles of performing well in a different time zone, and the quest to secure a visa despite his history.
You'll be inspired as he recounts his debut for the Warriors, his World Cup aspirations, and his indomitable faith and ambition that propelled him into the final team.
Brace yourselves for a deep dive into mental health as we shatter stigmas and discuss Suiโs initiative, TalkyourWalk, aimed at spreading awareness and showing that with vision and discipline, you can change the direction in which you are headed..
We underline the importance of a supportive circle, starting the day with gratitude, and the belief that our past does not dictate our future. Infused with life lessons and sprinkled with wisdom, this episode is a potent reminder of the power of resilience, self-care, and the possibility of transformation, regardless of one's circumstances. Sui emphasises that challenges can lead to personal growth and that our future is not defined by our past.
This is an extraordinary story of redemption and resilience.
You are listening to the Quintessentially - You Podcast, where we share journeys and shift minds because #everymancounts.
Welcome back to the quintessentially you podcast. My name is Craig. I'm your host. There's my absolute privilege to welcome on to the show today A man who's brought up over 200 professional rugby league appearances around the world, a fantastic human being, somebody that a lot of guys look up to. A lot of guys would like to play against, but more than likely they would like to play with. He is a gentleman on the field and he's a gentleman off the field as well. It's my pleasure to welcome Sui Matangi hey, sui.
Speaker 2:Hey brother, craig man, thank you so much. So I'd say what I'll know is to get invited to your podcast and it's a pleasure to get to know you over this time. And, yeah, just to be on the podium. Man, it's awesome to be here. I appreciate you if you're not the space force.
Speaker 1:No, thank you for coming on, bro. It's. You know it's it's. Things happen for a reason in life and you know we were blessed with being able to meet each other locally. The reasons that I don't think either of us would have ever thought about so over a year ago. So things happened for a reason. I thought I'd take the opportunity to catch up with you and see if you can share your story and your journey, and we'll just see where it goes. Yeah, yeah, definitely, we've got loads to cover. One thing that I would like to ask first, and it's something that I read on your bio this morning, is don't expect anyone else to understand your journey if you've never walked, if they've never walked your path. Bro, that is a powerful statement. Would you mind explaining a bit about what it means to you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks, bro, and that's a powerful question that you asked and it's something that I fully understand myself. And to give you a bit of context, when you, when you say that, that sort of gives me shivers inside because it's personal to me in a way, obviously really blessed and grateful to play professionally the last, you know 11 or so years, and when you're in that space for a long time, you know you get judged, you know you're in the public eye, you know it's cut for the pressures on to perform, you know the expectation to win all the time, and so you're always in the public eye and stuff. And I think the biggest one that I come to realise is that you're always going to get judged on the way you make certain decisions on and off the field. And so for me it goes back, you know, when we were one o'clock, back 10 plus years, so that they're mind going into eventually. But when I spent time inside, you know sentence to three years in prison. That are you really on age when you go through? You know the dark times that I did go through and you come out the other side. It's we.
Speaker 2:My dream was birthed in prison just to clear it up and I figured of that question, you know, to play professionally, to play in our own represent, the Kiwis and torso more. That came from in my prison cell, realising that I had a dead end Right and I've seen no way forward. You know nothing to my name Anxious, depressed, just desperate, you know. And my family was suffering from my actions. And that's where, you know, the dream and vision came from me differently, when I realised I had no one else but my family that were fighting on the outside, I just turned to the thing that I knew that could help me at the time, and that was I just cried out to God and I said a simple prayer and that's as real as it gets. And then I just remember going the following day. God is hey, I'm going to change you from a nobody to somebody I didn't even know.
Speaker 2:I knew nothing about faith, knew nothing about hope, but this belief came inside of me and so, right from that moment I was released, you know, that started to birth and dreamings. Look, five years from now, I'm going to play in the NRL and for me it wasn't for any selfish reasons, it was literally, you know, to restore my family name, to show you know my kids, regardless of how many times I've dropped the ball down in life, that I was willing to pick it up and run again. And it was to show and make my mum and dad you know, my wife I'm proud, you know be proud of something. But more importantly, it was to give hope to the guys that were inside. And so I remember vividly, you know, for years and years, you know, sacrificed all the big things that didn't touch drugs, alcohol, because everyone, you know, my life before everyone, was like man. This guy will never change.
Speaker 2:So I, literally, I thought, god, I've been fully man, full transformation changed inside out. This came out a new person and I had a fresh start. And so you know, when you're going back to that question, man, that vision for me was to run it straight in life and to give hope. And it was about the one person. If I could inspire one person, if I could, you know, get to the top of the mountain, you know, play professionally, just be that beacon of light and hope. To show that man, if I can come from where I've come from, and you know how much more can you and I surround the world achieve their dreams if they choose not to give up if they just get back up and pick themselves up.
Speaker 2:And so for you, I realized, man, it doesn't matter how far wrong you've gone, whether you hit a dead end or not, it's never too late to turn your life around and pick that ball up and run it straight again. And so for that question here it hits me in so many ways that I fully understand it inside. I'm just trying my best to sort of do it justice by bringing it and say a lot of things. People won't understand my dream, my vision, that I feel like it's a God given purpose to me. It's just to give people hope by living up and just running straight in life. Because, as you know yourself, you know, in the game of rugby, rugby league, it doesn't matter how big or strong you are, you're going to get knocked down in life. You know you're going to someone's bigger, someone's going to be stronger, wiser. It's going to, you know, knock you down. But it's how you react and that's what I've come to learn. And so you know your reaction determines the outcome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and I remember seeing it was on YouTube and the title is run it straight, isn't it? Yeah, you know, and I was wondering where that had come from. So now the context makes sense. You know that's really powerful and thank you for sharing that. There'll be a lot of. So you grew up in South Auckland?
Speaker 2:yeah, no, my wife is from South Auckland. I grew up in West Auckland.
Speaker 1:Right, and so, just for a bit of context, auckland is a tough place to grow up in anyway. Yeah, you know, as a youngster and I was from you know down in Waikato For you to get to the point where you ended up inside how did you get there? Was it just mates, or you're unhappy with school, or what led you down that path in the first place?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think one of the main reasons was I was just a lost kid, like man. Honestly. I came from loving parents, loving home. I mean they've done everything possibly to raise me and massive love and respect to them, but I felt like I was on the outside. When you mentioned mates, yeah, I think I. You know, look back, I surrounded myself with the wrong mates or, you know, in the wrong environment. You know the timing.
Speaker 1:Wrong place at the right time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was definitely that, and I was easy influenced. And so when I mentioned the early on that I was, I felt like I was lost. I didn't know who I was. And so, as you lost, you just wander off and you follow the crowd, and I was, you know. I put my hand up, I just followed the crowd, got up to Mishchiff, done whatever. You know, I wasn't afraid of anyone. That makes sense.
Speaker 2:And so you just do what everyone does and you know, when you're surrounded with the wrong crowd and wrong environment, the wrong influences, you know you start to pick up, you know certain traits and that picked up from one thing it was like a snowball effect. You know you get into the wrong environment and then all of a sudden you see the smoking, the alcohol and then, all of a sudden, what you see and hear the gangs or that kind of stuff started to creep in. And so that's what really inspired me at a young age. And you know, I look back now and the topic I learned now and I'm really mindful and I try and pass down to my kids is to be really mindful and to protect our eye gates, what I call them in the air gates, Because what you're allowed in is eventually going to manifest out, and that was something that I realized at a really young age. What inspired me was watching gang movies, listening to certain music and I don't blame me anything going on with the kind of movies or something that I just found myself in. All of a sudden there was a passion for it, and then the environment all this came together.
Speaker 2:And so what you do when you're passionate about gangs or gang related activities, you know you're going to find yourself in trouble. And that's literally what I've done, man. I went from being arrested so many times PD, what they call it, Remember why? Could it be the old community service and if you've done a few shifts or something, but every weekend, you know, always getting fines and all that kind of stuff and all just a slap on the hand. For me, I didn't take those as warnings and I didn't have any real guidance, I guess at that time, that age, and so I just lived life recklessly. Man didn't care about anything called the consequences that were there to follow, and so I just did what I wanted, and it led me to prison, obviously.
Speaker 1:And how did so? All through that, you know you've got mum and dad at home. You know they've got to be worried around how they boys, brothers and sisters. How many brothers and sisters have you got? Yeah?
Speaker 2:seven brothers all up I'm the second youngest here, right and so my older brothers as well, as someone I looked up to as well, and they also live in that sort of lifestyle as well. Okay, gangs and to see them drink alcohol and I'm surrounded or in that sort of room. So, you know, as a young kid you sort of grow up in this man. That's what I want to be, you know, and you want to try, and because I feel like respect is a big thing, yeah, and you try and get their respect by okay, and then at a young age you want to pick up or see how young you can drink or how many you know, all that kind of stuff, and it just like you know yourself, it just starts little. You realise the little things end up being the big things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they become, yeah, and those habits become the daily norm in the end, don't they?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, and that was the case for me. I still remember the early man like, believe it or not, by 15, 16, man, I was literally like alcoholic, yeah, every day drinking, and that's why a lot of people when they see me now they won't believe the last I was living before. Any of my close family and friends were at that time. But I was some of that drunk very heavily, drugs, everything you know. When I was drinking there was no social drinking or was drinking until you black out. Yeah, wake up, repeat yeah, and the full process of, yeah, go back to work, provide, and was that mentality of, as long as I'm providing and putting food on the table, yeah, I do what I want, go drink with the boys, and just found myself in that you know circle. And then it was that repeat that that's like where you drink, work hard, come back, play, boom, and then that was that vicious cycle I found myself in At the time. Yeah, I found a lot of joy in it which, when I think back now, man, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:What do you think you were trying to fill with that activity?
Speaker 2:Or is there anything that, when you reflect back, yeah, I think a lot of it came back down to trying to fit in. When I mentioned I was lost, that I really am, like I was trying to fit in and that's where I found myself in trouble trying to be someone I wasn't. Yeah, because, like I mentioned, my mum and dad brought us up. They done best. We didn't have everything, but, man, there's anything that was overflowing from my mum and dad was loved, love and respect, and so we grew up with those good traits, coming from my island background, like they weren't short of that. Godless if we didn't have much food, man they. But I felt like the love and all that kind of stuff was there.
Speaker 2:But for me on, you know, doing the journey alone, I felt like when I look back now and then going through this, I was trying to find who I was, but I was doing it in the wrong areas. Yeah, and I felt, you know, when you're on certain gangs or whatever you may call it, or bad environments, you're easily accepted, I feel. And so when you're easily accepted, you know it's like, hey, this is the crew. Yeah, and so the more you feel accepted, you know you just continue to go down then. Then you're in, you're trying to earn their respect that way, you know, and like yourself, you'll start doing. You know, certain actions that you know you weren't proud of.
Speaker 1:You know looking back and I was just kind of just thinking were you born in Auckland or were you? What about mum and dad with a?
Speaker 2:Yeah, they were from Samoa. Okay, so they flew over Samoa to give us a better life and opportunity, like most parents from the islands, until I was born, in New Zealand. And that was another let down for me. You know, being in prison, incarcerated, that's what really hit home. Not only that, I left my you know wife and newborn daughter to, you know, live, live life without me and look after themselves. I thought of mum and dad coming over from Samoa to New Zealand to give us a better future.
Speaker 2:And here I am in the prison, prison cell, and that's, you know, that shame and guilt that I had to sort of live with and thinking, man, what can I do to make this right? And so for a while I had that guilt, thinking, man, I gotta, gotta figure out a way because this is not the way. Because, literally, when I'm a really young age, I literally thought this was life. I remember the purpose man, that doesn't get better than this, the club being the party, and the drugs, alcohol or that kind of scene. I thought, wow, it doesn't get better than this. And I come to realise, man, this for myself and my experience, and you know, it was any temporary happiness. When I look back, yeah, and I say it with all respect, but that was through my you know, experience and revelation through it all.
Speaker 1:So for the Pacific Island community, faith in churches is really, really big. Did you grow up going to church or were you trying to get out of going to church? Some of us love going to church, some of us try to get out of church.
Speaker 2:But that's a really good question. And you're right. You know, especially as Islanders, we're founded on faith. Yeah, and to my mom and dad yeah, we took us to church and for me at a young age, that's all I remember. I was going to church, come back and was ticking the box. At the moment, when I look back, I felt like I was pushed out of church because the decisions I was making away from church, who I was hanging out with, you know, even in, I just felt when I walked into the church, I felt judged straight away. Yeah, and so at a really young age, I felt that like I felt the energy and that's where I felt like it pushed me out of it.
Speaker 1:And it probably was there as well. You know it's. I could, yeah I could, probably understand how you would feel that and you could probably understand how you know the rest of those, the community going to church, might think that yeah, you know, yeah, it's crazy because you'll think church should be a safe space for everyone, broken, regardless.
Speaker 2:To come. Come as you are, yeah, and that's you know as you grow in your relationship. You know that's that's the message of you know, of faith is to come down, there's no one that's perfect. To come as you are, man and regardless where you are in life, just turn up. And I wish I heard that message and felt that at that time.
Speaker 2:Like you mentioned before, a lot of things happened for a reason and I was just grateful that moment that never gave up on taking me to church at a really young age because I felt like that was a seed that was planted at a really young age. But when, you know, I faced one of the darkest moments in a young teenager, young adult being in prison when I had no one. You know when I talk about being in the prison cell no freedom, missing my daughter's first birthday, literally a failure. You know, feeling being labeled as a criminal for the rest of you know, my life I just had all the voices, everything, just like man. You've got nothing to your name. Why bother living on these of? You know this is, this is my reality, and so when I'm in a confined, you know wall, just a bed mirror taller, that's when you really start asking questions and that's when you really start looking hard, you know, at yourself and ask those serious questions. And that's where I learned one of the biggest lessons for me is the mirror window. You know in life you're going to, you know, asserted, things happen.
Speaker 2:I remember reading the book called Above the Line by Urban Meyer and he talks about equation. He goes E plus R equals O. The events in life plus the way you react to it is going to determine the outcome. And it's just going back to the mirror or the window and prison. Obviously I'm locked up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got here my own, my divisions. I can either look out the window and blame my environment the choices I made by this didn't work out, why I dropped out of school at 15, going to court and all that kind of stuff or look in the mirror and take ownership, take accountability. You know, come, come about with myself and realize I've got myself here and just like a game, right, you know there's two halves in a game and my first half I didn't play so well. And what you do, you know when you come in the coach is talking. That was me at my half time, crying, crying the God to please give me a second chance, and looked in the mirror and so my release was my second half in life. That's why I'm happily, you know, grateful to find hope and faith and to follow, you know, and pursue a dream that seemed impossible at the time.
Speaker 1:Pretty deep, you know so you were quite young when you went inside. Yeah, baby was.
Speaker 2:how old she was about seven, six months, I think. Okay, she was. Yeah, she was only a few months old. I think that's what really rattled me as a father, yeah, and it's hard to explain that. But as a young father, when you're inside and you know I was the breadwinner for the family, and then missing the first birthday man, that shame and guilty. You can't explain that and you live with that and thinking, man, you know who am I? Not even worthy to be. You know her father. All these things come into play, say, I think that's where a lot of the hunger came from me. And missing her first birthday, that's what rattled me and just bored out crying man, I never thought I'll ever cry, but I look back now it's probably one of the best things that could ever happen to me. Yeah, going into prison because it was weird as well at the time, like I was 17, but I was in the adult prison. I don't know how that worked, man, but it worked out for my good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right on the young spectrum of going into an adult prison.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you see, I think it's 18. You're literally 18 when you go in, or 18, maybe 19. I was literally 17 and I went in and I was like, oh okay, I'm straight up adult prison. That's the reality.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's tough, it's tough man, did you have any mentors? When you're inside, you know that you met and who sort of took you under your wing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was, I was, I was in prison, I was in prison, I was in prison, I was in prison. There were a few I'm there were a few. And when you remember Mount Eden, mount Eden prison, yeah, I still remember my first day walking in at the 17 year old. You know your orange overalls. You know, as a newbie, you were in the orange overalls, everyone's looking to, everyone's already given their kit, yeah, and I was like, hey, stay together. And one guy just came up straight away because he were over there, and then straight up, five, 10 minutes still to fight. I was going, this was crazy. You know, another gang against another gang. I was like, wow, this is real stuff, yeah. And then, as you turn on, you meet certain people and, like you mentioned, yeah, we had one that was at Mount and then I got transferred to Manawatu prison, but that's where I felt like I met.
Speaker 2:I've done a couple of mentors at that moment and it's crazy, like you mentioned, things happen, for for a reason, there were three men that I remember vividly that for some reason we had a great connection and from different ages and they had different reasons of coming in. You know, being sentenced, but I remember them speaking life over me. That's why it goes back to the power from your words. You know those spoken words that I come to realize in a member against men. You're too young to be in here. You're a champion, you should be a boxer. You know you're going to be the champion of the world one day. And he's just saying these things and I was just like and I think back now I was good man having those certain guys just help guide you and speak life into you.
Speaker 2:And there were guys that were doing 10 plus years, telling me, early, it's just not the life to go. These are guys that have spent, you know, doing double digits. They were guys that were doing life inside, just telling me man, that's the way for you, man, you know, sure, when you go out and so when you're hearing it from you know those that have been there and done that and life sentence they didn't get a second chance. You want to take that valuable advice and so for me, at a young age, they're stuck with me. I want to see myself with life here being life. These guys didn't get a second chance going out.
Speaker 1:And I could see what should be for you.
Speaker 2:And that's, and that's what it's, crazy man like. Going back to one of the reasons, or the why. You know they say when the why is big, even a ever come anyhow, yeah, and for me, obviously with my family, or the faith, but that big drive for me, that purpose, man, I was willing to pay the price, regardless, I was willing to do whatever it took, just so I could one day, if I could be on the TV and show you the inmates where I was, they could just one day watch the game. And you made it, you know, to shine that bit of hope and just to show them. And so when I look back, man, there was, we touched on a bit about it. You know everyone tends to see the highlights, but no one really sees the low lights. Yeah, and it's, the low lights is where you want to figure out for any aspiring athletes that want to learn or climb the mountain top is, you know it's, the low lights are where you're going to learn, you know. You want to find out what he done, or you know.
Speaker 1:So let's go there, then let's jump forward into your playing career. I'd like to come back to sort of you know that part between being released and then, those four or five years between starting and then, and then, you know, being invited into the Warriors environment. But there'll be guys that listen in, guys and girls, sorry no. And everybody sees the life of a sportsman is, you know, paid with gold, and they see, you know TV. They see you running it into contact. They'll see the lights of replays of Dan Carter kicking it to win. You know Johnny Wilkinson kicking a drop gold to win the World Cup. You know sunny bill taking you through about 25 players in that beautiful offload, putting someone under the posts, and that moment in time. Those moments in time are a reflection of what happens over countless hundreds, if not thousands, of hours. What's it like behind the curtain from a professional sportsman's point of view or sports person's point of view?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a really great question. And when you mentioned those high caliber players, you know you see them often because of players that I looked up to and admired as well on my journey up, experiencing it myself. That's the glamorous stuff that people like to see and I know many people think that it happens just like that. But what it's like, man, it's like you mentioned the hundreds, if not thousands, of hours, repetition after repetition, and it's I'm sorry to say a word it's not sexy. That's why I'm actually coaching in the under 15s at the moment.
Speaker 2:I don't settle here. I try and to pass on, to let them know, because a lot of the times they think their talent is enough and it's not, which is fair, because I remember sharing to them last week that talent, when talent meets talent, obviously, when you climb the ranks and you get to a certain age, what's going to separate you from the coach picking the other fellow? It's got nothing to do with talent. Talent will get you. That's it. It's the mindset, it's the character, it's how you turn up, the attitude, all that kind of stuff. The talent will only get your foot in the door or it's going to get you through it. It's all the other stuff. It's the stuff that you don't require talent, and these are the stuff.
Speaker 2:It's not easy because, as you know yourself, being consistent, you don't get rewarded for a week or a month or years.
Speaker 2:You see the sunny building that they've been year after year after year, and so when you're doing that, it comes at a heavy price and it's not easy, the pressure that comes with everything else, from trying to juggle family time, getting all this because I've worked before and so I understand the grind, the 12 hour shifts and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:And you see it a lot of times people try and compare working and all that kind of stuff to a professional athlete. But there's no comparison to it, because I've done both sides of things, and to do a preseason and let alone get through one, it's really tough, man. What it requires in their minds of your body is there's something else and it's not for everyone, and that's why there's a small window in days that get to play over five, six, seven years and that's why I'm grateful, man, that I've got them to play over 10 plus years and I'm part of that small percent. Well, it's just the willingness to not give up, but there's a heavy price that comes with it and there's not many people talk about that, like I mentioned, and how that conversation comes up. You only see the highlights on TV and that all comes at a price and it's painful.
Speaker 1:So let's break it down a little bit then. How many hours do you work in a normal preseason? Would you do a week leading up to in season?
Speaker 2:Yeah well, the NRL is a complete different to the Super League here, but I remember when I first started at the NRL we were turning up from the 6.30, 7 o'clock start. We're not leaving until 4.30 to 5. And within that time you know you're running, you're doing your fitness, you're doing your skill work, ball work, 13 or 13. And in wrestle, you know obviously you have your breaks in between. Then you go to wrestle against each other and then you're back into off-feet con and then to finish the day, you know you're swimming. And you've got to remember it's not just turning up because there's only 17 spots. You know everyone's gunning for that. They run one team or contracts and so everyone's competing against everyone. Everyone said you're 100 against someone else's 100. And so you know that was day one and I'll let you tell you my first day, man, I was the climb that, everything I'd done to get myself there. I was over moon, man, grateful for this opportunity. You know, getting this chance, yeah, I was. I couldn't even sleep really that whole week. And then when I got there, I done my first day and I could not. On my way back I was thinking of ways on telling my wife and kids I'm going to give up. That's how hard it was. Yeah, I couldn't live with myself over thinking, man, how am I going to tell them I was fighting on my way back? And then I was at home and I was thinking I literally can't carry on. It was tough. And when I mentioned like tough, there was third in season players that will do our conditioning and will literally faint, like literally conk out. So it was. You know it was. I think my words don't do it justice, but it was not nice.
Speaker 2:Every day you're waking up and your body is gone, like it was literally all hard in mind getting you, getting you through day two, day three, and that's where the wires got to be really clear. Yeah, and for me, I was willing to pay that price and I didn't want to give up. I didn't want to. If I did give up, I felt like I not only let my family down, but the inmates. And so I come to realise is that you know, through the struggles or when you're climbing in pursuit of something bigger or more significant, with streams of goals, you got to take the focus of yourself, because when you focus on yourself, you easily give up. Focus on the pain I was going through. There's no time to be here. And so I was like, nah, man, the inmates are relying on me. You know what, I'm willing to go into the fire and, regardless of whether I come last or what, I'm going to just give up. My all and my all is going to be enough to get me through that day and then turn up again. And so I started to develop a mindset like you know what, you can't get rid of me, coach. I'm here, yeah, I'm here. I'm here. There's no way, there's no more quitting. It's too late to quit now. So that's the mindset I've had in and develop Because my why was clear I'm not only doing it for my family, but those in the struggle, those in prisons, those that have come from tough backgrounds, that think, you know that there's no way forward.
Speaker 2:And so that's where the runner straight sort of developers run astray. It's more than just running astray with the ball. It's a message, yeah, the message of hope that for me and I that's my mentality that I'm running, but I'm running with a message and if you knock me down, man, I'm not going to give up, I'm going to get back up. And I love it. Yeah, I love the physical content, because it's a reminder for myself and it's a reminder to show others as well. It's it's a message You're going to get knocked down in life, as long as you get back up and just move forward, and it doesn't matter how quick you move forward, just move. Yeah, you're going to be all right and it's going to be lessened, and it's going to be lessened from your troubles and adversities that you face in life. And so that's where that came from and developed, and I was just taking that mindset and ran off it.
Speaker 1:It's bigger than you, oh, big time. You know there's, there's a, there's a lot more souls that are pushing you forward. You know the, the people that have been there for you over the years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely. There's definitely so many people to mention and stuff like that and there's a quote that goes on to you know, if you want to go fast, go alone, but if you want to go far, you know you go, you go together and it's so important in life. You know we touched on it early on about the key to relationship play. Yeah, it was literally the key to relationships and success. Yeah, exactly Whatever that success looks like in to you in your life, it's important to have you know the right people. Yeah, that's better, wiser, stronger, that's gone before you to help you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you've your network. Your key network would be your other half, yeah, and your family your family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I had said it Other people that, yeah, there's too many to name. But to to mention man, the wife has stood, stood, stood a ground from day one, even when I was in prison. Yeah, she seemed a lot, and it takes a special person to go through the pain that I put it through and to still be here smiling and holding it down for the family you get in their way. I make it with other as one of the biggest. Let's a little advice that I'll give to my son anyone that's wanting to pursue their path of relationships, especially when they've got a dream to become a professional athlete. Yeah, it's important.
Speaker 2:It takes a special woman to to understand your grind and hustle, because there's times when I didn't even know what I was doing, but I was out like I was working 12 hours shifts before all this professional stuff. And so for me I realized I had to go before six o'clock times, four, four thirty, I was out in the morning doing the training what I needed to do, yeah, 66. And then after that I had to go again and so, yeah, so I wasn't coming home till nine, nine thirty. So I was leaving the kids in the morning, didn't get to say goodbye or wish them to school, and then, when you come back from work, they're pretty much asleep, yeah, and so, going back to your wife, she understood that. She ended up the quote that goes if you don't sacrifice for what you want, what you want's going to become the sacrifice. Yeah, and so it was really grateful to have a wife by my side and to understand even to know she understands when I got to do things.
Speaker 1:You would have done a lot of travelling when you were with the Warriors back and forward, you know, during the weeks for games away. Yeah, that must have been tough being away from the family. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It was. For me it was a completely different sort of experience. One, definitely tough, being away from the family, especially having young kids as well. We travelled a lot with the Warriors and that was half the battle we had to, you know. And then the second was we had to perform, yeah, and I remember different time zones, you know. We were playing at 1am in New Zealand time. So I was like man, the challenge at Camelfield. But being away from family was tough. But I embraced that tough at the same time because my journey into the Warriors it didn't come easy, and what I mean by that is having a criminal record.
Speaker 2:The Warriors didn't know at the time that I had to apply for a visa, so I kept that on the low for a while while I was chasing the dream. Yeah, the immediate step forward into Australia was one of the moments where I was like man. One was hard being away from the family, but two, I remember who I was doing it for and made me really grateful. Really grateful that, you know, because it was an impossible task at the time that I was facing. Yeah, there was a massive mountain that I had to overcome and so for five years that was something that I had to battle with day in, day out. I had to hold and hold that dream alive, even when I was told not to bother because of my visa. I couldn't. I was told don't even bother applying for a visa because you wouldn't get it. You know, being criminal record and stuff, and so so much credit goes to the man above. You know. Allow me to dream and believe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, things happen at the right time for the right reasons, big time man.
Speaker 2:I look back now and just so many people that I've been grateful for that have helped me along the way in terms of visas and stuff, and I really do believe that you know God brings the right people. You know in your path, you know at the right time to and it goes back to the first question you asked me. You know about the vision. You know understanding. You know when it's God's vision and dream man, he'll find the right people to come. And that's where I feel like when I look back. Even meeting you, to be honest, it was a blessing that's all, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's why it's so cool, man, and not, yeah, I don't often talk about it, but it's sort of my journey, you know, with the visa. But that's been the biggest, one of the biggest hurdles and struggles that I've had to deal with. Yeah, in terms of, am I even going to get a contract, is this even going to happen? And say, for five years straight, there's that sense of doubt that clouds around. They say, man, what are you doing? What are you doing? But my whole thing was that man faith, faith in action. You know, if you're praying for something, you know God's not going to open a door. If you're just staying at home, you know you've got to go out there and prepare for that rain and you know God made a rain at the right time. Five years on, man, I said a five year goal in a left prison and just sometimes it's the same time that the fifth year the door literally opened and my visa came through.
Speaker 1:Do you manifest? And I only say that because everything aligns when you find your purpose and when your actions and your thoughts are so clear that the universe will allow for these things to happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that was definitely that I mentioned. Going back, that significant moment when I, when I literally cried out and prayed you know, cry out to God and came out early. It was that moment that I explained. I felt something inside me that I never felt before. I just felt faith, I just felt hope, I felt the dream come alive and I just literally felt like a big father was just pushing me to get a dream. That's literally how I felt.
Speaker 2:And so when I left, I really knew I was in NRL and that's my lesson that I give to help you know my son and stuff is you know, long before you become an NRL player, you got to live in NRL. Yeah, what I mean by that is you got to live the standards, you got to live the habits way before you get there, because it's if you have that mentality, it's all wait till I get there before I start preparing. It's like it's like you saying well, I'm going to wait to do the extras, wait to do the 100 meters per inch or the passing, you know, until that door opens. It doesn't work like that. Yeah, someone else is already taking his pot, the opportunity. And so when I left, I really knew straight away knowing and believing are two different things. I knew that's where a lot of people came out. People thought I was a drugs. Yeah, you know my close friends and family. They broke the drugs. You guys never paid rugby league.
Speaker 1:So you never played rugby league at all.
Speaker 2:No, probably just going back to under 10, 12, maybe. Okay, that was probably the last time that I really touched the football and those years you didn't really know what you're doing, you just catch and run, and so from 12 years old onwards, there was nothing was the rugby league of see how many beers and stuff I can put down. So when you go to high school, I went to custom boys.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:That's a bloody big.
Speaker 1:it's a big union school yeah play league there as well.
Speaker 2:They did play. So when they did I think it was 2002 or three they entered to play rugby league for the first time and they ended up taking it out and beating St Paul's. But, like you said, they're first 15 rugby team, rugby school, and so that was one of my main reasons why I went to Calstone. But the funny thing is I never touched the rugby ball when I got there and that's where you check the thing. Yeah, that's where I got introduced to my first party, right, okay, yeah, I didn't even know what, what party was, all that kind of stuff. And I just remember we were catching a bus, yeah, and then one of the boys come on a Friday night. He goes hey, let us get into a party. And what's a buddy, get dressed to meet you here. Oh, yeah, and then once you your eyes see it, you can't see it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's been moved on, that, yeah, and it's a friend from there, yeah, yeah. So where did you play club? We were at Taddeley.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was at Taddeley to Rooster said that was a local club at the time yeah, and that was literally 1050 minutes away from home. So I still had home, home D. I was in home detention at the time, brace. Yeah, so at the bracelet, try to hide it. But I was running around going to hide and yeah, I was just man, I was just hungry, yeah, fresh airs. That I know nothing, but I knew the vision that was going back to what we're talking about. I knew it was going to okay, this is going to start. Before you got to get to the mountaintop, you got to go through the valleys and I realized that to research was the valley was getting through. You know, starting small and being faithful there.
Speaker 1:Were you so when you're at school? How tall were you? No, I was shorter than you are now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, much shorter. Yeah, I was pretty short, probably stubby and pretty big as a fast one. I had no attributes or anything at that time because, man, there was no running or anything. No one would have thought that I would become a professional athlete if I was to fast forward the time from then.
Speaker 1:It just shows, isn't it? You know, faith and purpose and vision.
Speaker 2:Oh, big time that's. You know those three words they mentioned. They're so powerful man and I frivve off that stuff and you know you talk about. You know what takes me as vision, as you know as purpose, you know, going back to one of the earlier questions you hit me up on is that I feel like I was lost because I had no vision and as a young kid, or any of these kids, these trouble kids that people label them as trouble, they're not trouble kids, they're just people that have been in bad environments, have made bad choices but lack vision. Yeah, I literally put down like you know where you always find the guy that's always getting in trouble and people seem you know different services and social care and all that kind of stuff. It's just man, you can give someone a vision, man, you know you're going to be too busy trying to pursue and chase their vision. You're going to find yourself in trouble. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Exactly so how many games let's go back to playing? Traveling for you with a young family is a real challenge. It puts into context the warriors you know and their fortunes. Over the years shown so much potential. But it's not until you put the time zones in that you realize how much of a challenge it is. So the results that they've shown over the years can sometimes reflect the challenge of traveling as well. When you finally got over to Australia and moved clubs, did you take the family with you initially, or as soon as you could, or did that come after a period of time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that came after six months. Okay, so I went on myself and so that was another big step of the comfort zone. I realized once I got to Australia, I was a whole new world. Yeah, I was born and raised in New Zealand, never been out of New Zealand. Being out of New Zealand, man, it really opened my eyes to how big this world is. And so, one, you feel like you've got to grow and you definitely take a step by their comfort zone. But two, it was exciting for the new challenge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I never thought how exciting it was and I said, man, I was trying to explain to the wife and kids and get them prepped Because I knew, if anything, the whole challenge was going to be with them. Because, as a player, you can easily make new 17, 20 teammates straightaway. Yeah, because you're training and you turn up every day, whereas them they make the move, they're leaving, we're leaving the whole network, support network, family, friends from school. Yeah, and then they got to start all over, whereas us we get to make friends every day and then they go for their struggles. That was the first time we exposed it and then I tried to make sure everything was done, possible, make sure you think, you know they don't have to really think, make sure the cars in place or the little stuff just to make their transitions move.
Speaker 1:So there would have been. You know there's always a community of island boys playing in or around the areas that you would have been to in Australia. Did that help you guys you know those connections settled with the family to settle down?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. But when I moved over to the city roosters at the time mum and dad were living with us. Oh, okay, yeah, we looked after yeah, I felt wouldn't say the right word is I felt obligated to look after, you know, mum and dad. After what I put them through, you know I wanted to, wasn't any for me and my family to live and experience a dream, but I wanted mum and dad to experience as well. Yeah, so we took them through the journey and brought them over. So when we went first, got to the roosters, there was no community island community, Right, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:But then when I think back on it, man, you talk about timing. I was in there for half a year, six months at the roosters, and then we didn't really know what was next. Yeah, I was like man, God, you opened the store. I know you didn't bring us this far to stay here. You know, as tall as it may, really trust you.
Speaker 2:And then, long story short, a friend of ours that we haven't seen years. They were friends of my mum and dad. They reached out because they were rooster fans and they obviously seemed that I was paying roosters. Hey, blah, blah, mum and dad. But they hear and it goes, yeah. And then the contract. In the long story short, the contract came at Penra fanfares and that's where they were living. And so that contract came in. And when we moved we took mum and dad, but straight away they found out at home, they found their community. So everything worked out, yeah, and along a lost relationship that mum and dad had been looking for their friends over 20 years, oh really, they eventually found this was like man, just everything just fell in place, Wow. So mum and dad were happy, family were happy, found an island community out of Mount Jewel in Sydney, and then, man, the rest of the history was just like well, everything's going to work out. It was just crazy how it all worked out. Mum and dad have never left. They've never want to go back to New Zealand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I can understand that as well. Two things I want to ask you about. It goes back to what we were talking about right at the start. Tell me about the day that you received your passport and your visa in the mail.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right in.
Speaker 1:New, zealand, then yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was the best thing ever. I still remember it now. So what happened was my first ever time traveling, was actually for the reserve team, it was about round six, round four, and it wasn't mainly. And when that came in and that's what it meant like, well, I've learned, and you see the highlights, and I want to get the low lights in.
Speaker 2:For years, man, for years, like if I was to like this month, like that many amount of paper and forms I had to fill out back and forth, back and forth, going back, and then obviously, we didn't have a printer at the time as well and didn't know how to use it sometimes. So I was like, man, I was driving, doing a lot of driving, like, but relationship with the people at the stationery shop through the printer, and I was like, what are you doing? But in terms of, like, what you're talking about manifesting those, that was literally I was just praying and faithful, like, look, these papers are going to get into the right hands. And then, all of a sudden, it was just a long journey. So when that came, not many people understood the excitement and the joy of it and the tears that came from it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, boys were complaining some boys were complaining oh I've been dropped, Me or the other man I'm going. That's the first time I see them realize yeah, exactly, that's the big one. For me, that's the big one.
Speaker 1:So you just the words that came from it.
Speaker 2:So here you go. There's what I was saying, though the more wins like that just was just one with the taste of, you know, one visa, and then obviously we had to do the other visa and stuff. Yeah, so that was the journey of that, you know, going from just plenty, plenty more stories.
Speaker 2:I'm telling Australia, then over to the UK, UK yeah, that one was my first, my first I think I'll share this one to many people but my, or literally that first year. So you know it was May the 9th I made my debut for the Warriors. Can you hear us now?
Speaker 1:Yeah, bro, that's what you're doing. You're in a studio, bro, yeah.
Speaker 2:So that year, you know, right in the beginning of the year, when I got my first, first, first passport visa, I was over the moon. I didn't get better than that, and in every three months. So the Warriors didn't realize it would know this, but every three months I had to reapply. So I was. I was afraid that they'll find out and then crush my contract. So I had to do it under cover, lee. But at the end of the year I had my eyes on the World Cup. Okay. But you got to remember, at the time I was a rookie, yeah, but this is the stuff that I had faith in. I was already new. I said, man, I mean, this is this, is it? Well, man, I was a rookie. Nowhere, nowhere near. They're going to, they're going to treat me or get picked.
Speaker 2:I only played a certain amount of games that year, and so this week we got eliminated. We didn't make the top eight, and I was a top eight. I think there was another three, four, five weeks until they reached the finals. They say we got our season finished a lot earlier. And so I was thinking I'm four, I'm four weeks away from this World Cup, wonder if I'll ever get a. You know how they picked the train on squad. Yeah, I was thinking, oh, should I? Should I at least try and just keep my hopes up? And but that's at the same time I got my visa. So it was one week when I was thinking, oh, should I do.
Speaker 1:Where was. World Cup. Where was that World Cup In?
Speaker 2:the UK. Oh, right, right. And so this was you know you understand my situation thinking, oh, I've only got a visa from New Zealand to Australia. Yeah, it renews every three months. And so, as the time was getting closer, the weeks were getting, you know, shorter and I was like four more weeks, I'm thinking, man wonder if I get picked. And then I'm not ready.
Speaker 2:For that's where I feel like I've learned that, you know, you're better prepared for something and not, and for the opportunity to come, then, you know, for the opportunity to come when you're not ready. And so I was like you know what, I might try and inquire, even if I didn't get picked for a train on squad or they get, at least I gave myself a shot. I could be happy with myself, you know. And so I caught. I just went through the papers and kind of find the right information, and I was like I found this guy called Mark Gassar that's why I remember his name Beverly Mann.
Speaker 2:I called this guy and he goes hey, I want to try and get a visa. He's here, he can definitely help you, and he's we trying to go to you. And he goes oh, from here to the UK, I want to play in the World Cup. It's all nice, we can help you and just give me certain information. We're going in, oh yeah, we should, we should do it. And then I told him about my past. He's oh, this is where it becomes tricky, yeah. And then I was like oh, and then he goes um okay, do you know how the process works? And he goes um no, and he goes well, first we fill out your forms, send it to Manila, manila go to Canberra, and then Canberra back to Sydney, and then Sydney back to Auckland, and then he gets there.
Speaker 1:That's about where they go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's weird that's. I just remember them saying that I was just okay. He said some sort of there was some sort of things, because it was my um, I had a criminal um, you know, I had a pass on it. So I think that's great for a certain way. So I was like okay, and I was like, yeah, just put it through. I was, you know, full off, full off drive and ambitions. Put a free man in and he goes when, when's this World Cup? And then I guess, oh, it's three weeks time. And he goes mate, they never bother. I'm going to put the phone down. He goes no, no, no, no, put it through, I'll pay whatever fee. So here, so he tells me he gets me. Do you understand the process? You're looking at three months minimum from there, there, there, or before you even can look at your papers, and I'm like here, just full as a bird, let's put it through. And that's the same. They're saving. You know it was. They had the drive, they had the ambition, had their faith, just to do it.
Speaker 2:So he put it through and then you know to, to to keep in mind, I'm not even. They haven't even named the team. So in week two comes in, two weeks I'm just keeping my eye on. And then one week comes in and they named the team, and then I find myself on the training squad. I was going, yes, but then I was like that store doesn't mean anything because the finals are still happening. They're going to, certain players are going to drop down and then others are going to get released, and so a couple of days come into it, and then the last game happened. They named the team and I made the team and I was over the moon that I got picked. I was going, man lucky, I prepared, but this time I didn't even have my visa.
Speaker 2:And then I was like, figure out what if we're going to tell the coach this time? And then they give us a date, they give us a call of congratulations, you made the team, we're going to meet in Sydney for three days and then fly from Sydney. So we'll meet everyone from from all over, come together in Sydney. So we had a three day camp and at the same time, man, I'm like nervously thinking what am I going to tell? You know being at the NRL, there's media and all that. This is probably going to come up thinking, just play, just play here, so you will tell you gets picked for the World Cup, but can't figure out what's what's going to go here. And so on the day it was the third day and I was thinking nothing's come through. And then we obviously pack our bags and get ready to go to the airport to fly to the UK. And still to that moment, man, I was thinking well, what's going to happen here? But I even remember on my flight over I was just declaring it Like I was like man, well, god, so what's going to happen? I'm going to get it. I'm going to get it, man, I'm going to go. But so we're making our trip to the airport, I was thinking, man, what are the coaches going to say, let the team down here, and then all the passports and all that burn through customs. And then still nothing. And then it was me. I remember BJ LeLua and Tim LeFai. We were the last three coming through the customs. And then I was just looking, I was going oh, this is where it's going to. Moment of truth, and no kidding, literally as I pulled my phone out. The email came through the email, literally as I stepped in front of the customer and it to say congratulations. These are, these are confirmed.
Speaker 2:And for me to describe that feeling, man, I just started crying Like I literally cried. I just looked at Joie LeLua, tim LeFai, and I was going very used to and even realized what's happened. Man, and I was walking, I was just crying and I was just like bro, I was thinking on that feeling that that moment I'll never forget. And that was when I realized what faith in action, backing yourself, looks like. You know, even when you don't see, you know the physical, whatever it is man going to like left New Zealand. That was one of the scariest things to do. Yeah, if many people would have done or backed themselves to go there without even a thing.
Speaker 2:But I was like, nah, I know, I've seen far too many things, I've seen God open too many doors for them to stop now. And that's just the journey in. And there's so many more journeys and stories that I could tell you, but that was one that really hit home because one, you know, the massive door open for me to go from New Zealand to Australia and then Australia to the UK. Yeah, that that was more, bigger, and that's not only for myself, but this shows every other inmate that has done time and not not necessarily want to pursue a dream and playing professional sports, but possibilities of traveling to another country, yeah, yeah, I feel like you've shown the way, that you've shown light that can be done. And so for me, there's a lot of challenges and battles that I've, you know, taken through me, that I've realized, man, a different level of gratitude comes with it, knowing you know what you've had to go through and then come to other side, that's all.
Speaker 1:Resilience, perseverance, faith, wow. Did anybody else know?
Speaker 2:No, I've any told you're probably the first I've probably told I've any told a tight knit group. So there's like a mention, man it's. There's many more stories that you just think, man, what is out of this world? But that was one of the main ones. You know we touch on those moments. That was one of a pivotal moment when my career, on a look back, and I was going, man, that's what, when I was here in the UK in 2013, when I was playing like this or something that I really you know remember I was, I was in the prison cell and I was watching a rugby league game. So when you're watching different things, I was like man, one day I'm going to be on that TV.
Speaker 2:And now I'm here on the world stage representing Tos Amor and you know the smile that put on my, you know my mother and father's face to represent where they're from. That was the way I wanted to repay. You know that was priceless to see that smile. When I went back and I seen a different version of him, like my relationship with my dad. He passed away earlier this year.
Speaker 2:I'm blessed and grateful, you know, as I have that memory of him, but I was grateful that I got to achieve many things while he was alive. To show him like man, to make him proud, that's what I wanted. I put him through Howman and said for me it was seeing that smile coming back from the World Cup making my debut. You know as yourself, as a you know father, there's proud moments and that was that for me. That was so rewarding and worth the price that I, you know, paid and had to overcome the certain challenges that I had to go through just to see that smile like that. And that's why, when I played here in the UK, that World Cup man that hit different every time you cut it, that ball man, you just give it to me. I mean, yeah, man, you hit me, take my head off, do whatever. I was going to go and play, so it just came with a different excitement Awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you for sharing that. It's a cool story, but again, you know faith, purpose, you know it's things happen for a reason. Yeah, well, given that, I only wanted to try and keep it to half an hour, we're doing pretty well, aren't we? It's going through the flow eh. So that was 2013,. Was it 2013 World?
Speaker 2:Cup.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you were with Samoa.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so 2013,. I was with Samoa the following year. I made the Kiwis team for the Four Nations and bear in mind, like I still look like now like I had no idea what I was doing, like and I say that respectfully like I was just hungry. Yeah, I mentioned I was rookie, so I was just a sponge trying to take it in, but then I was opening so fast that I couldn't even, you know, try and slow down what's going on. So then even on my climb up to the mountain top, I came crashing down even quicker. But it's stuff that I'm grateful for because I learned now and these stuff that I had to learn or go through can pass that down to my son now.
Speaker 1:Describe what happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um my rookie year, 2013,. You know, went after something that I never thought it'll even come true. Made my debut, played NRL, and then the World Cup come at the end of the year, and I think I only played a handful of NRL games. So here one I've made my dream come true, which is playing the NRL represent or someone in the World Cup. Following year, same thing started playing some consistent footy for the Warriors, and then I got picked up with the four nations and the Kiwis.
Speaker 2:I said for me at a young you like, coming through rookie hours, thinking, man, what's going on here? Yeah, I've done it all. This is the highest levels that you can reach and play. You know the Kiwis and Tosan more. I've made it, I've done it. And then that's where I learned.
Speaker 2:One of the biggest lessons is that you know life is full of seasons and life is full of mountains. When you climb one mountain, you know you got to get ready to come back down to climb again, and the longer you stay on that top of that mountain, the quicker you're going to realize that life moves on. You've got to realize that. You know you've got to plan again, you've got to go again. And I didn't realize that I learned that, you know, early on in my career is that complacency is that you've got to go again. And I got. I don't know if it was the word complacent, but I just I didn't know what I was doing, if I was to be honest, because I would stalk fresh, even though I debuted at a really old age, like 25, you know, usually it's these days that they've been 19 to any country academy scholarships. I didn't do that. I didn't come through that that way. I literally came from grass roots, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so when I was- there I was just like man, I'm bracing it all, wow, this is so cool. And then you don't really have anyone guiding you, or even these you know with that experience, to tell you what's next. And so when I fell, I fell down and then, after making the Kiwis, I've ticked it all the following year. You think you can rely on your, your, your old accomplishments, but nah, there's life. You don't know yourself. Like your wins they mean nothing. You've got to go again. It's a new season. Yeah, it's a new season. And that's where the lessons I was learning that I didn't realize meant you've got to go again.
Speaker 2:And for me it was just I've done it all for me and I was going through this, this phase of like I'm going to find myself again, what's going on here, not getting picked. But for me it's like everything that happened, like you mentioned yourself, happened for a reason, and for me it was just because one door closed, you know, doesn't mean that was it, you know one one closed, at the worst. Another one opened for me that allowed me to go to Sydney Roosters, and even that was another story. The timing and how that came. It's crazy man, with visa situation and all that kind of stuff. It was honestly, it was just opening up another chapter and that will probably be all night. That was crazy how that happened, yeah, but then that's where you know I've come to realize that there's no wasted experiences. Yeah, bad, the good, the ugly, there's purpose for it if you just continue to persevere and push through. On the other side of that challenge there's a blessing in disguise. There we're waiting for you and that's what I've come to realize in life.
Speaker 2:And if I see adversity and challenges completely different compared to how I've seen it back, then whenever I feel like life hits you, it's, it's a blessing. I see it as a blessing and like I, I, I I probably not saying the right words for it, I'm just seeing it how, how I feel, and even, dad, you know, passing this year, there was one of the hardest things to go through. A lot of good came from it. Yeah, like you know, choosing to see the positive side of you know the adversity as you face in life, it was it's like going back in our career and I'll see what sort of heading that way, like I feel like transitioning out of your career as well as a rugby league player or sort of sportsman or sportswoman, you got to accept that sports or the career is not forever. Yeah, and. And the quicker you can accept that, the better you can move on and stop, and not only for the next phase, but the more joy you can play while in the present moment. Yeah, that's what you feel like yeah.
Speaker 1:Sorry, no, I was just going to say when you've got those things in place, or you've got that plan in place, then you don't have to spend the energy on the unknown of what's going to happen next, because that is, you know, you've got a plan in place, you're taking care of it and you know, you know that your family's secure, you know we're going to be heading as opposed to get to the end of the but but, and I, like you've described, be prepared. Be prepared and not necessarily need it, as opposed to you know when you need it, you're not prepared. It's it's better to have it ahead of time. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I was one of my really good mentors of mine, my mentors. They really encouraged me and challenged my thinking, especially, you know, as I come into the back of my career and he goes, man, you want to take it well before you become thirsty and you want to prepare before the crisis happens. You know, prepare now, because many people wait for the crisis to happen before they prepare and by then it's too late. And so when he said that, I knew that early and especially coming my journey, coming into the professional arena, I was working before. Yeah, and so rugby league wasn't my everything, and that's what I learned the importance of identity. Yeah, there's no. You know, you are in your identity when you attach your identity to your rugby league or any sporting thing. Sports is not forever. So when you attach to something that's not forever, you're going to get crashing down. It's not, you're going to think that's it, yeah, it's a short period of your time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2:It's only the short period of life and life is, you know, this big. So you can get that perspective right and learn early as, like man I've seen it too many times People place their identity and sports and as a you know as their career and then, when the career finishes, they think life is over. Yes, and man, life is an exciting you know. That's what I believe. You know you can take that same mindset that you learn and throughout your journey and your career, trans, trans, trans with that same mindset into life. Yeah, and there's nothing in the stock.
Speaker 1:So tell me what does you're in the position where you've been privileged to play for 10 years at a fantastically high level across the world and, like you've just been describing, you know the next chapter of your life is in play. And would you like to describe what that looks like for you at the moment?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like I've been preparing since day one there as I debuted. That's a weird, weird way to explain it, but ever since I debuted I knew it was never about me. You know, it was about purpose. It had to be bigger than myself. I don't know if I placed it on myself. You know, when life challenges and feelings and all that kind of stuff come into play, I'll fall short, and so it was always about finding the one. Just going back to men If I can inspire the one, I know I've played my part and so for me it was. That's how I've always done it, on and off the field while I was playing. So I've been preparing well for a long time and for me, my ideal life or dream after all is done is that I want to continue to be making a big impact, inspiring people, traveling the world, doing that, going to prisons, giving them a blueprint program, just giving ways on how to treat people that there's a better way areas, regardless of you know where you've gone in life. So one of the things that you know, what I didn't touch based on is that my mindset before that, whatever your belief system is, and all that kind of stuff that's being programmed, being on my influences and my upbringing and stuff. Whatever was being programmed, it can be unprogrammed and that's my message I want to show. People is like man. I was in that state because there's a lot of people, you see, a lot of the times I think there's a sofa and then they act a certain way and I was just like that.
Speaker 2:I shared this experience two weeks ago when I'd done some care work and I took a youth, a young person, to a court. A lovely kid man 14 year old kid broke a life-time on my way there. I said what are you doing for a life man? Just trying to plant some good seeds in them. As a man, you've got your whole life to look forward to man. When I found out he was a chef and then we went into the courtroom and he mixed with eight different 14 year olds and then they all were drinking each other's eagles and trying to look tough and then they started swearing and then their language and accent started to change and then it was crazy. For me, it was like wow. For me it was a big message the importance of your environment, and so when he was there he was trying to codify it and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:And when we left, completely new guy again, and I was just telling him, for me I was just like man, just speaking life to him. I've been down your path and he didn't believe me and I was going I'm telling you now, if you then change, you then start to. I spoke life to him, obviously, and I gained his trust before I shared it to him. But just what opportunity to speak life to him. Every message, man, and a lot of it, came down to their vision. All these seasons you want to smoke, do this and that and want to fight.
Speaker 2:And I was like that's, that's where, for me, it's like man. If I can find myself doing anything along those lines where I can just help, empower, impact people, that's me and that's where I see myself being a life athlete. And what I mean by the life athlete is somebody wins, not only in their finances, their marriage, their relationships. Winning an award is a life. As I believe, life is the one game we kind of fall to lose, and that's probably me, in a nutshell, where, because I've been living it my whole life, it doesn't seem like a transition. If that makes sense, just carry on. Just carry on by helping and inspiring people.
Speaker 1:Thank you for sharing that. I know that you will. You'll definitely make an impact. You know, wherever you go, because of the way that you conduct yourself, the way that you prepare, the way that you interact with people, your humility and the grace you know with which you approach everyday life, there is one thing and we will, we will reconvene. Earlier, you spoke about talk your walk. Could you just, you know, run through how that came about, what that means and sort of the lessons that you've learned and the empowerment that's come about with it? Yeah, cool.
Speaker 2:You were talking walk as a charity now where we're up and running non sport fed organization as well, and how that all came about. It just came from four buses. Me those people tell to you here. I wouldn't try saying his last name, clinton, because you'll put your last name is out of respect and Jesse Sena file and all four of us man we all played cousin for all come from similar backgrounds, from New Zealand or Australia.
Speaker 2:We know when you migrate to another country and stuff, the importance of togetherness, family, community and said we were pretty much family away from you know, from from home, and we'll just catch up before training. And it was just those little catch ups and we're catching up regularly and as the more we grew individually and as a group, started checking up and going deeper. You know your self, a often in life majority of us we live surface level. We often go deeper, to the roots and why things happen. And we felt like we got deeper with our conversations and we went from checking in from zero to five. We're just saying hey, five being the best, zero being, you know, the lowest point. How are you feeling in all these areas, spiritual, mental, physical and all that and the more honest we got, more we see people share. Just be bold, we realized, was giving the other guys confidence to share and be vulnerable and, through our vulnerability, healing came in that process. And so what we were sharing and was man also powerful that we came to a conclusion that, man, we need to put on a party Because we know that if they can help one person out there, man, we know we've done something. You know good within, you know being professional athletes and just time back to, one of my values and and visions is to empower and impact the one, and so it made sense. I was like, yeah, let's do it, man, it's put ourselves out there, and if that means putting ourselves out there for the boys or all this kind of stuff, to that someone can find hope, it's going to be worth it.
Speaker 2:We started from a podcast and then we've done our first podcast, first couple and man, the feedback we got, man, many people coming back. That's when it really got to us and realized, man, we need to carry on with this. And then we went further with it to become an organization, because we don't just want to be a podcast voice, but we want to break that stigma around mental health, not only in rugby league spaces. You know men in general, but a lot of time there's a, there's a persona that you know rugby league players, or any sports players, don't suffer, or you know they're immune to life challenges, but we're all going to face the challenges. For us, it's just being bold about their message that, hey, it's alright, it's okay to not be okay. They're going to be days when you're down, and that's fine. It's going to be days when you're flying, and that's fine as well. But it's important of having that community, finding the right people around you, because you're going to need it sooner or later. You're going to fall. They're going to be seasons in your life where your mates are going to have to carry. There's going to be times where you're going to have to ask for help, and it's just us.
Speaker 2:I feel like, if we can use our platform while we're playing professionally, this can help, you know, break that stigma and bring confidence out of people to hey, everyone's got a story. We're all going through, you know, struggles. We believe our breakthrough is going to be someone else's deliverance, you know, down the line, and it's just coming back to making the impact and making that play count. So that's, you know, in a nutshell. We're going into schools. We're really hungry to go into schools, to prisons, workplaces, and touch on you know areas that not many people like to touch on. And you know we cover all sorts of leadership, teamwork, mindset, reprigerated mindset, and we're in the talks already with another school. So that's where we are right now as an organization and we're in touch with prisons and stuff, and so it ties back into pretty much what we're being talking on.
Speaker 2:And you know, making an impact and purpose, you know showing people that, man, you've got air, oxygen lungs, you know, in your lungs. You know you've got purpose in your life. It's one of the things that we come to realize in life. The answers you you know the quality of answers you get come down to the question you ask yourself. Later, the time it just comes down to the question day, change the question you ask yourself, man, you get the right answers and say that's where we are and we're talking walkers and it's exciting. And so when you talk about that transition phase, you know when you're part of something that has purpose, has meaning and that's more than yourself, it's cool to be a part of something like that.
Speaker 1:It runs a similar line to those who back to when you first came out and you know you're doing, doing the mahi for not only you but for your family, and you know those guys that you've been inside with and they said that's your path. You know, and again the same, again with you know, talk your walk. Your path is to empower people and you're and to find those people who will come along with you.
Speaker 2:Definitely, man, it's. It's it's a message that we want to really get out and try and encourage and inspire people, to let them know, man, we're powerful people, we're actually stronger than we're thinking. You know, there's there's dreams, like I sort of believe there's dreams and we're born with greatness. It's a brilliant about asking those tough questions within yourself and finding it. You know, not just keep seeking it, but, man, when you surround yourself with the right people and right environment, you're going to find the best in yourself. And that's what. That's literally what I've done.
Speaker 2:Like we, as Talking Walk, are no different than any other people, even as professional athletes were just choices away from you know certain things, with just being more disciplined in certain areas, or we've just got more information than than to certain other people.
Speaker 2:Well, that's, that's all it was here. Well, a lot of it came down to mindset. Yeah, and so if you feel like you're struggling with them and change your environment and watch yourself grow, and, and so that's that's where that's literally what I've done, man, like I literally had to reinvent myself, reinvent my, you know, started to learn and grow, read books, listen to podcasts and you know, going back to the end eyes, what, what am I feeding myself? Yeah, because that's so important, because eventually what you go, goes in is going to come out, and so it made it out of the cylinder. You can literally reinvent and reprogram your mind, you can reprogram yourself, and that's the message I hope that you know we try and paint when we go out, just causing that, and so it's just. You know, your past doesn't define your future, man. Yeah, your mistakes and stuff like and it's a moment in time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was going to ask if there was one thing that you wanted to sort of share with, with those who are listening. You know around what they can do differently, but I think you've just described it, haven't you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really. I think a lot of it stems down to for me I'm just looking back at my experience and a lot of it stems down to how you wake up first thing in the morning. When you wake up, man, start your day off on gratitude. The fact that you got to wake up, that's a blessing on yourself and sometimes it goes. You know that's underrated. It's waking up the next morning your family and say how we got to start and what we share with Talking, walk and we go into schools where we share.
Speaker 2:The most important part is get your first part of the day right Wake up, start programming your mind, because you don't program your mind. Your mind is going to program you and if you go straight into social media and news and all that kind of stuff, it's negative. 90% of the stuff is negative. So if you're programming your mind in a negative state, you know. And then reactive, you know going out. You're going to go out and predict it out there and your day is going to go out there. So we will talk about when your morning to when your day and just start off the simple man does, simple morning routine that we go through three things to be grateful for family, having a roof over here, and you'll find yourself just in a whole better state when you focus on gratitude rather than starting your day on something you know that happened a week ago, or why this didn't work, or this, you know, is just controlling the controllables. There's an acronym called ABC, which is always be conscious, to always be conscious of where you are in the moment. You know, make you know. You think of it as a rugby league game. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, in a rugby league game, it's not the minutes you've been given, but what you put in the minutes. And you relate that to life. Yeah, you know what it will be. And then so, when you wake up and if you can start your day, start to.
Speaker 2:For me, it's a simple, as a simple morning routine. I started my day right, feeding the mind, and then, that way, when I can look after myself, I can look after those around me, and it goes back to first leading yourself before you lead others. More, talking as a you know, from a father and husband point of view, get myself right first and you can literally reprogram your mind on the influences and what you pour in like man. Honestly, if you were to ask me what my life was 15 years ago. Honestly, you'll be shocked the way I fought. I fought, but that's the good news that I want to share and the message that anybody can change their life at any time yeah, anytime. It's not going to happen overnight, but, like you said, persistent and you just disappear through. There's no challenge. You know, I believe under the sun or in the sky that no one in this world has overcome Someone's overcome what you've gone through. Yeah, and it's just going back to the information or there's help out there. You know, and that's where we talk your walk. Yeah, you know, there's a aid, is help out there. You didn't have to, you didn't have to struggle alone. You're not alone. Yeah, 100%, and that's the biggest thing we want to break as well. Yeah, of messages, man, you're not alone. Yeah, if people out there around you, there's help out there Any moment, anytime.
Speaker 2:You feel like struggle, man, and it's just finding processes and systems in place. Yeah, and that's all it is. When you become a professional athlete or in business, the only thing that separates the ordinary and extraordinary person in the system are routines. You get those in place and that's all it is. I mean, I feel like I'm down because one of the things of emotions your emotions are good indicators but they're not good. You know dictators, yeah, what I mean by that is you're not always going to, you're not going to always feel right. Yeah, does that mean like, well, it's not. Yeah, I'm like.
Speaker 2:For myself, the biggest lesson I learned was that, man, the hardest part was carrying my dad's coffin. Yeah, I was down, I was crying. I was like, hey, it's good to cry, it's men cry man. Like it's a mission that you're not so fired. I was okay, I wasn't man, it was. The hardest part was carrying it. But it's going back to professional athlete, holding on, thinking it's forever Same thing in life. And I feel like the more I can't accept the reality because, man, we've got our time is limited here on. If there's nothing I can do, death. Death is part of, you know, of life. Yep, when you're born, you're going to mention that, and that's the hard truth, certainly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just to you know. So for me to go oh why should I beat up everyone or blame this person? Because my dad died, that lived a good life and I'm grateful for them, grateful for everything he's put into me. But I learned to accept that, yeah, and when you can accept that, you know this is going back to the motions, it's okay. Yeah, I felt down but then, man, I'm cheering again because I feel like I have the choice to carry on my dad's life. He's passed the baton on to me and what I do with that baton matters is going to carry his legacy. Is that we have two choices either to get on the drain, or you know the deep hole where it never ends, or, man, carry my dad's legacy on and carry on, and to write to you and those emotions. I'm just using that as an example because it seems extreme, but, man, that wasn't feeling alright to me.
Speaker 1:You're right, it's showing that gratitude. Having that gratitude to you know, be able to see the fact that you know he lived a fantastic life and you know the pride that, the expectation that he would want to see which is probably what he's already seen is that you are living the best life that you can live, you've got a family, that are healthy, and that everybody's you know just being the best that they can be. And when you start to see it that way, then it changes the whole way that you perceive everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's everything to it. I think that's a lot when you talk about that perceiving. When you look at the things, change the things you look at, moving to sort of change it, saying it goes around like that and to looking at things differently. Man, it's in our control. Yeah, you know, what we choose to focus on can literally change our perspective into the things. That, for me, it's just going back to gratitude. Yeah, you know, what can I be grateful for? You know, for my dad. Yeah, I mean, I'm just going to go straight away the notions of happiness and so, even throughout the day, because I start my day off like that, regardless of what life's obstacles are going to throw its way. So, like man, it's good and the bad.
Speaker 2:You talk about resilience. Yeah, you talk about, you know, the characters. It's going to come, whether we like or not. Yeah, exactly, just a matter of when. But then if you can just learn to take it, hey, it's coming. Yeah, it's all with the punches. Yep, it's going to make me stronger. If I carry on, then you're going to build my character, then you're going to build my resilience. And if nothing comes from it, there's an experience that I can learn from this and pass it down to my son. Yeah, so there's no wasted experiences. And you know, when I look back on the whole journey and certain things that didn't work out, when certain doors are enclosed, man nothing is ever wasted?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. You know, even if it didn't happen for me, it's wisdom that I can pass on now to my son or my kids, kids, or when kids are schools or wherever. Yeah, and we have the opportunity that's in there. Every single human being have the opportunity to follow, you know, to dream, you know big dreams, to have visions, to have purpose. I totally believe no one's put on this earth without a purpose.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Spot on there, bro, spot on Very, very wise words. But we'll leave it there. This is the end of this night and I think there's loads covered. Thank you for coming on this evening and sharing your wise wisdom and sharing your story, and you know what that means to you. What that means to you, know class, everybody's, your people, because that's what it is, those who have been with you and have backed you and have you know, given their love and their wisdom to get you where you are today. And thank you for the. You know the journey that you're on and sharing that around talking, walk and the success.
Speaker 1:But there's still a lot to cover, because I would like to talk about grassroots and the energy, being able to give a different perspective on to a professional athlete, so we will cover that. If people wanted to get in contact with you, what would be the best way to do that, bro?
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks, ben, and just before we wrap up, I'll take an opportunity just want to say a message thank you. I love the mahi that you're doing as well to play a small part of the man and can get to know you and you straight away. You're awesome bloke man, and to give your time away from you know grassroots the something that I didn't take lightly and that's what I respect. You know the encourages that give back to the time, or you know the staff and admin for things to grassroots and all that kind of stuff to happen. Take certain people to. You know volunteer and to put the hand up, and you know like time is our greatest commodity, right? You can't get that back in for you to give your time and then the many others, man, so take my head off to you and just want to say thank you as well, man, I appreciate all you do as well and the impact that you're having as well with your podcast. I wish you all the best with that and definitely look forward to making up again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can find me talk your walk. We're on social media platforms. I'm also on Instagram, if it's easier, instagram, email, facebook as well, so I've got a lot of social, our website system, the pipeline that's getting in public as soon as the works. So now you know email or social media is really active on socials, so you'll find us adding a lot of value through there on our socials, sharing the journey and where we are.
Speaker 1:Well, what I will do. I'll get all your contacts and put them on the episode notes so that people can reach out, and we will send out everything on to Instagram and then on LinkedIn and on Twitter and if the other boys wanted to come on and have a chat about, their journeys and how they ended up sitting around the table on Costa with you and the others. That would be catch pie.
Speaker 2:Definitely, man. I definitely think we need to sit down and I'll introduce you to the boys. I hope that might happen because I know we're all on different journeys and work and all that stuff. But if it works out like this again Zoom, maybe I'll introduce you on Zoom. If not, we'll try and tear up a time to catch up with coffee and stuff and I'll introduce you to the boys. Cool, that'd be lovely. Yeah it'll be cool, it'll be awesome to meet you as well, yes, wait, guys.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening in tonight. You know if it's your first time listening in today, thank you for listening in. I hope you've enjoyed the discussion that I've had with Sui. I've definitely loved catching up with him. He's a fantastic human being. The work, or the mahi, that he is doing with Talk, your Walk and with the other players and brothers in arms, is definitely needed. If you've enjoyed this, please share it with somebody who you know it will add value to and it's reason why you know I've started Quinn essentially you. I think after tonight's discussion, you will understand what it means to be Sui Motugi and the journey that he's been on. It's pretty special, yeah, it's pretty special. So thank you for listening in. I've enjoyed bringing this to you. You know, for me every man counts and that's why we're here. So, god bless, have a great evening.